Are Community Relations Dead in GW1?

[-Sonata-]

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

2. To stick with Karate Jesus' terminology, customer relations quantity was higher in the old Gaile Gray days, but the quality was probably lower. She was a snide, condescending woman who took on the air of Queen GW. To me, listening to her was like talking to a pre-school teacher who forgot to leave her work voice at work, never realizing that she is only a genius compared to toddlers. Has everyone forgotten the peak of pretention when she threatened to take the customer service ball and go home, because -get this- paying customers tend to gripe when they're unhappy. WTF do you expect when you take a job in customer service? Unless you work for the mob, you should never expect your customers to lick your ass, you should be full on prepared for a hassle or you should not take the job.

Gaile returned the attitude she was given depending on the player. This is the self imposed mantra of Riverside. We constantly tout how thick skin is needed here. It's just the interwebz afterall. Half of us aim to rip apart the other in a literary assault. Around here, each of us give back what we're given. Gaile was no different. If certain players acted oblivious and stupid then she treated you as such. She took the Riverside mantra and threw it back in our faces when it was needed. Martin can be the same way. Welcome to the Riverside we created.

Community relations is a two way street. We ask them to speak up more and when they do the typical retort is that the message is worthless and unimportant. So they go back to limited information and then we bitch again about how "CR" is dead.

Originally Posted by Karate Jesus

Yes, I would. However, I would have pushed the development team to create an official forum where I had the administrator rights to delete comments and would have tied forum accounts to game accounts so people were responsible (read:bannable) for trolling.

Then the question becomes where is your line drawn between voicing an opinion that differs from yours and trolling? In recent times, the term "troll" has been used far too often, especially around here, to describe people who simply had a decenting view.

Those employed to Community Relations should have no power, none whatsoever, in holding the ability to ban. Your job would be to listen, note, and consider the message from your community. All the good and all the bad. If you hold power to control the message, the job serves no purpose to you, or those above you. It would be a conflict of interest and often is on other official forums where CR's, or GM's, who are in positions to control information, use the power to do just that.

[To Chicken To Die]

Originally Posted by Iuris

The problem is, people just want more NOW. And they won't accept that Anet won't give away more.

Maybe thats because the people want new content now they have been everywere. And no not GW2 promotion that gives 1 hour play a week and a bounty to keep you busy a few min a day. Or a collector for items that you can get 5 a week wich will keep you busy for an hour if you even care to farm the items yourself. No not some quest to redo missions you have already done to get a single item thats new to the game (equipment pack). But real new content with new skills, weapons (not green or trades from a collector) but normal drops, new proffesions etc. And if you look at the release dates from prophics, faction, NF and EoTN and the time between the release from EoTN till now the gap is simply to big. Even with GW2 in the make they should have put some people at work or maybe hire some new people to create new GW1 campaign. There are still big numbers that simply want to play GW1 so there is enough money to earn just look at how many costumes that you saw in the game when they came out. People still want it.

[Billiard]

I see ANet folks cruising through our forums pretty much every single day. They do their best to keep up with things in GW1 even as they are moving forward with GW2. They cannot however constantly be commenting on what thousands of people are chatting about. Regina and Martin have posted when hot topics pop up here, but both are really busy now with the summer conferences. In addition, they are also in a stage of transition within their staff, which I would expect also to affect their time and posting.

All that said - what would you want them to post and comment about? How frequently should they be posting to keep you happy? We keep things pretty open here, but as a result I know all the negativity that tends to follow probably discourages them from posting much as it just leads to a ton more work for them when they have to respond even more.

[Ka Tet]

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

Community relations is a two way street.

Not really. Take a job in any service industry that requires customer interaction, then complain to your boss that customers are being mean to you or allow your boss to hear you slamming a customer while the customer is present. Not a two way street.
Customers don't typically communicate with a service provider unless there is something wrong with the service, that's just the way it is. My guess would that if the company is doing an all around great job, you don't want to disturb them from that.

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

We ask them to speak up more and when they do the typical retort is that the message is worthless and unimportant. So they go back to limited information and then we bitch again about how "CR" is dead.

That may come from the fact that the community often felt like Anet was only providing lip service to listening to the community.

[Abedeus]

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

Gaile returned the attitude she was given depending on the player. This is the self imposed mantra of Riverside. We constantly tout how thick skin is needed here. It's just the interwebz afterall. Half of us aim to rip apart the other in a literary assault. Around here, each of us give back what we're given. Gaile was no different. If certain players acted oblivious and stupid then she treated you as such. She took the Riverside mantra and threw it back in our faces when it was needed. Martin can be the same way. Welcome to the Riverside we created.

Community relations is a two way street. We ask them to speak up more and when they do the typical retort is that the message is worthless and unimportant. So they go back to limited information and then we bitch again about how "CR" is dead.

So... They felt offended over the interweb so they decided to quit their day jobs. Hey, I love NCSoft CR guys. Aion has shitty people, GW has... dunno if it even has people. I think only City of X has it good.

Still, the only God damn thing OUR guys like Martin or Regina are supposed to do is talk to community and exchange informations between us and the devs. If not possible, talk to community again and, DEAR GOD I KNOW IT'S TERRIBLE, keep on doing that despite negative feedback.

Especially when you are getting negative feedback. It's easy to be nice to everyone around you and get paid for doing that when people are grateful. However, when you are slacking off, doing absolutely NOTHING, don't run crying back to your home because "daddy they aren't playing nice".

[own age myname]

Originally Posted by Billiard

I see ANet folks cruising through our forums pretty much every single day. They do their best to keep up with things in GW1 even as they are moving forward with GW2. They cannot however constantly be commenting on what thousands of people are chatting about. Regina and Martin have posted when hot topics pop up here, but both are really busy now with the summer conferences. In addition, they are also in a stage of transition within their staff, which I would expect also to affect their time and posting.

All that said - what would you want them to post and comment about? How frequently should they be posting to keep you happy? We keep things pretty open here, but as a result I know all the negativity that tends to follow probably discourages them from posting much as it just leads to a ton more work for them when they have to respond even more.

This basically wins the thread. They are active, just we don't notice it.

Originally Posted by To Chicken To Die

Maybe thats because the people want new content now they have been everywere. And no not GW2 promotion that gives 1 hour play a week and a bounty to keep you busy a few min a day. Or a collector for items that you can get 5 a week wich will keep you busy for an hour if you even care to farm the items yourself. No not some quest to redo missions you have already done to get a single item thats new to the game (equipment pack). But real new content with new skills, weapons (not green or trades from a collector) but normal drops, new proffesions etc. And if you look at the release dates from prophics, faction, NF and EoTN and the time between the release from EoTN till now the gap is simply to big. Even with GW2 in the make they should have put some people at work or maybe hire some new people to create new GW1 campaign. There are still big numbers that simply want to play GW1 so there is enough money to earn just look at how many costumes that you saw in the game when they came out. People still want it.

GW:B is basically a new campaign, but only a small team is making it.

[To Chicken To Die]

Originally Posted by own age myname

This basically wins the thread. They are active, just we don't notice it.

Isn't that part of there job as CR to make us (the community) notice and informed? . Maybe we will hear them soon with something big but just as the massive ban with the 3.700 bans they could have ban a lot of people earlier but they had to wait making bots cause more dmg to the game in hope that the big nummer will impress us and make us satisfied for a few weeks. But in reallity those bots went on causing dmg. And now they might be working but keeping us in the dark to long, making more and more people giving up the hope for improvement.

Originally Posted by own age myname

GW:B is basically a new campaign, but only a small team is making it.

If you mean GW2? Then no thats a new game not a new campaign. Or if it is possible the get your excisting character to GW2 and back to GW1 but that I think will never happen.

[Darcy]

1. Even if you weren't around since day one, you must have noticed that ArenaNet's budget did not cover the dedicated manpower for an official forum. This is why guru and the other big forums grew so quickly and became the places to go for help and reaching ANet's ear.

2. Not only Gaile Gray but most of the employees had to spend some time each day reading the forums to keep track of game problems and legitimate complaints. None of them were required to make meaningless comments in threads.

3. Gaile Gray talked to the community at the average level of maturity she was experiencing which most of the time seemed to be about kindergarten. She did a great job in that position and is doing a great job now.

4. You don't need to ban people for stupid posts; ignoring them is sufficient punishment. None of the ArenaNet people need to complain to their bosses nor do they feel the need to "get even" as they are a little more mature and don't have the need to vent in public forums.

5. I realize that most of the posters in this thread are just trying to outdo each other in the descriptions of how badly the GW community reps are doing their jobs, but you are just making yourselves look ridiculous. If you were hoping that Regina, Martin or Stephane would pop in here to become a part of this whole hate fest, you need to reconsider your belief in their masochistic tendencies.

[Cuilan]

Originally Posted by Snorph

rumors have it WOW have all gone free. Now my question is, GW1 still too date has survived it all. So why have GW1 made it thus so far ?

There aren't any rumors at all about WoW going free, it was mentioned by WoW's staff officially as something that may happen in the future. It currently isn't free.

Originally Posted by Snorph

LoL for you GW haters go play WoW, that way the people that like GW can enjoy it without the GW haters and complainers. Go play WoW, all I have to say.

I don't see anyone in this thread who hates Guild Wars.

[snaek]

what are the requirements exactly of cr? last time i checked it doesn't involve posting on fan forums, but it should involve 2-way communication (and not just lurking). whether or not that communication is via fanforums, i don't exactly see where else this communication should occur. i haven't seen any in-game cr since gaile gray and i don't bother to post on official wiki (although according to op, cr is also inactive over there).

imo i think the ultimate goal for cr is for the community to recognize and be familiar with the cr's identity. i don't think regina has even come close to making a name for herself as much as gaile has. also, if there are any other members for cr, i have no clue who they are.

[Ka Tet]

Originally Posted by Darcy

1. Even if you weren't around since day one, you must have noticed that ArenaNet's budget did not cover the dedicated manpower for an official forum. This is why guru and the other big forums grew so quickly and became the places to go for help and reaching ANet's ear.

2. Not only Gaile Gray but most of the employees had to spend some time each day reading the forums to keep track of game problems and legitimate complaints. None of them were required to make meaningless comments in threads.

3. Gaile Gray talked to the community at the average level of maturity she was experiencing which most of the time seemed to be about kindergarten. She did a great job in that position and is doing a great job now.

4. You don't need to ban people for stupid posts; ignoring them is sufficient punishment. None of the ArenaNet people need to complain to their bosses nor do they feel the need to "get even" as they are a little more mature and don't have the need to vent in public forums.

5. I realize that most of the posters in this thread are just trying to outdo each other in the descriptions of how badly the GW community reps are doing their jobs, but you are just making yourselves look ridiculous. If you were hoping that Regina, Martin or Stephane would pop in here to become a part of this whole hate fest, you need to reconsider your belief in their masochistic tendencies.

1. Fair enough.
2. ok
3. Talking down to a community when a handful speak inappropriately, only encourages that behavior from the rest of the community.
4. I'm with you some of the way. I'm not sure where the get even part came from though. And, there has in fact been venting in public forums.
5.Kind of invalidates the rest of your post. A. Legit complaints are legit. B. Given the fact that many of these posts indicate that people believe customer relations to be dead, I doubt anyone expects customer service to make an appearance anywhere near the actual community.

[own age myname]

Originally Posted by To Chicken To Die

Isn't that part of there job as CR to make us (the community) notice and informed? . Maybe we will hear them soon with something big but just as the massive ban with the 3.700 bans they could have ban a lot of people earlier but they had to wait making bots cause more dmg to the game in hope that the big nummer will impress us and make us satisfied for a few weeks. But in reallity those bots went on causing dmg. And now they might be working but keeping us in the dark to long, making more and more people giving up the hope for improvement.

?

If you mean GW2? Then no thats a new game not a new campaign. Or if it is possible the get your excisting character to GW2 and back to GW1 but that I think will never happen.

Guild Wars: Beyond. A.K.A War in Kryta. That's the biggest content since EoTN, and it was done fairly well. That story had more heart in it then most of Guild Wars (I actually felt a little of what the characters felt). Another reason I'm going to buy GW2: the writers for ANet are good. If anyone says otherwise they are blinded by hate.

[To Chicken To Die]

Originally Posted by Darcy

1. Even if you weren't around since day one, you must have noticed that ArenaNet's budget did not cover the dedicated manpower for an official forum. This is why guru and the other big forums grew so quickly and became the places to go for help and reaching ANet's ear.

Right... So the person that made this forum is pomping in money? A forum is some easy scripting and they can use there servers for it wich will cost nothing. The PR people can be admins and review the activity on the forum once every working day and some fans with limited action such as post removal or any can moderate the forum.

To put it simple if they can't cover a few costs for a official forum they should hire a new bookkeeper.

Originally Posted by Darcy

2. Not only Gaile Gray but most of the employees had to spend some time each day reading the forums to keep track of game problems and legitimate complaints. None of them were required to make meaningless comments in threads.

Maybe comments with meaning to inform the public aswell atleast it was called public relations

Originally Posted by Darcy

4. You don't need to ban people for stupid posts; ignoring them is sufficient punishment. None of the ArenaNet people need to complain to their bosses nor do they feel the need to "get even" as they are a little more mature and don't have the need to vent in public forums.

Stupid posts uhh... Not all post irrelevent to your interest are stupid. There are more relative or question posts that make sense that should be answerd with 1 post by a PR employ but keep getting filled with more question, assumptions and false answers by others because there is no answer by a employ that we all know has the answer. And well support... Thats worth a other thread but also not a strong side.

Originally Posted by Darcy

5. I realize that most of the posters in this thread are just trying to outdo each other in the descriptions of how badly the GW community reps are doing their jobs, but you are just making yourselves look ridiculous. If you were hoping that Regina, Martin or Stephane would pop in here to become a part of this whole hate fest, you need to reconsider your belief in their masochistic tendencies.

Well there not really improving either in the last months tbh. And no don't expect them to pop up because well thats why there is this thread. It's a fact that there on GWG2 while it goes about GW1.

Originally Posted by own age myname

Guild Wars: Beyond. A.K.A War in Kryta. That's the biggest content since EoTN, and it was done fairly well. That story had more heart in it then most of Guild Wars (I actually felt a little of what the characters felt). Another reason I'm going to buy GW2: the writers for ANet are good. If anyone says otherwise they are blinded by hate.

That's not a campaign but more like a mini story going on in original content. Without new area's, skills, monsters, towns, heroes, dungeons, weapon drops etc. A new campaign needs a whole stroy with missons and not half excisting toons giving skill dumped in a area for new content

And besides that a campaign must give you a feeling about a new story like Prophics is more western with humans against chars while Factions gives you more the asian feeling and the great battle between am fah jade kurzick and luxon while NF gives you more the feeling as landscape as maybe africa and the story between wealth and a demon kingdom. Thats why EoTN is a expention and not a campaign.

[-Sonata-]

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

Not really. Take a job in any service industry that requires customer interaction, then complain to your boss that customers are being mean to you or allow your boss to hear you slamming a customer while the customer is present. Not a two way street.
Customers don't typically communicate with a service provider unless there is something wrong with the service, that's just the way it is. My guess would that if the company is doing an all around great job, you don't want to disturb them from that.

Is this to suggest that our CR's have slammed us in front of them, or complained to their bosses we're being mean? If so, do you have evidence of this?

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Especially when you are getting negative feedback. It's easy to be nice to everyone around you and get paid for doing that when people are grateful. However, when you are slacking off, doing absolutely NOTHING, don't run crying back to your home because "daddy they aren't playing nice".

And is this to suggest that because their red names aren't splattered across these forums they're slacking off?

[Ka Tet]

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

Is this to suggest that our CR's have slammed us in front of them, or complained to their bosses we're being mean? If so, do you have evidence of this?

http://forums.gwonline.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=399248 paraphrased: Imma take my ball and go home, you guys is mean.

[-Sonata-]

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

http://forums.gwonline.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=399248 paraphrased: Imma take my ball and go home, you guys is mean.

Exactly what I was hoping for.

Yeah, we know the story. Basically what we had was an engaging CR, from in game chats to posting at length on here and being involved in person.

Yet at every turn she was dragged through the mud for it.

When she posted in length here, people complained she was talking too much. When she posted little, it was never enough.

When she had in game chats with the frog, people made fun of her for the Frog while forgetting what she was trying to do. Oh yes, I remember the comments well. Often hearing that she should be doing her "job" instead of hanging out with Frogs in the game. When she cut down on the chats, she was bitched about for not being around.

That woman could have cured Cancer and she still would have been yelled at for ignoring Diabetics.

There were countless times that Gaile should have kept quiet, but she wasn't that person. She wanted to keep us in the loop as much as possible, even through the mistakes and miscommunication. And in the end how did we show our thanks? We treated her like crap. No, not just being immature, or childish, but literally we treated her like she was dirt on our shoes, in the virtual world and the non. Even when she expressed to some that their behavior crossed lines, many still didn't care and carved her up even more. It became more than just customers expressing concerns to the service rep. It became a personal vendetta.

So now we want our current CR's to rebrand the Gaileway. We didn't learn from our history, but it seems Anet did. We didn't truly appreciate it then and there's no evidence we'd appreciate it now.

[Shriketalon]

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

paraphrased: Imma take my ball and go home, you guys is mean.

Nothing will ever satisfy this community.

When PvE is updated, the PvPers complain that they are ignored. When PvP is tweaked, PvE rants about time wasted on a niche group. When skill changes effect both parties, they wail about how they shouldn't suffer for the other side. When skills are split, they mutter about how the game is getting too disconnected.

When new content is spread out over time, people complain about having only a quick fix and nothing left for another week. When new content is added in a single chunk, people sweep through it with their uber builds and complain that it was too short. When there is no new content, everyone complains.

When skills are buffed, people complain about power creep. When skills are nerfed, people complain about Anet eliminating fun. When monsters are cut down to size, people complain about the game being dumbed down to newb levels. When areas are made tougher, people complain that Anet is catering to the PvX crowd and requiring cookie-cutter, perfect builds.

When titles are made more difficult, people complain about the overabundance of grind. When titles are made easier, people complain about how the "undeserving" are now getting their hard-won prestige and making them no longer have meaning.

When the developers don't post, people complain about a lack of developer response. When they do post, people pick over their messages piece by piece for anything they can contradict or disparage.


Are you surprised that a developer may not want to go to a community who's common response to anything is "the game is dead, why bother"?

[Ka Tet]

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

Fanboi ramblings

Are you suggesting that your stance has changed and now you think that customer service is dead and not doing their jobs, but its not their fault? You asked for documentation you got it, let the discussion continue forward or get out of it. All you're doing is foot dragging.

[-Sonata-]

Originally Posted by tha walkin dude

Are you suggesting that your stance has changed and now you think that customer service is dead and not doing their jobs, but its not their fault? You asked for documentation you got it, let the discussion continue forward or get out of it. All you're doing is foot dragging.

Changed from what? I never stated that it was alive, or dead. Talk about foot dragging. Apparently I'm too cryptic in pointing out our past behavior as a reason for our apparent current situation. So let me be blunt:

What is it you want our CR's to do? If being enagaging like Gaile was bad & if being restrained like our current reps are bad, what should they be? What will make you happy and content? Anything? Nothing? Or do you prefer the opportunity to get some name jabs in without offering up solutions to this apparent problem that is a great and urgent issue?

[Lanier]

Originally Posted by -Sonata-

When she posted in length here, people complained she was talking too much. When she posted little, it was never enough.

Why the hell would anyone complain that she is talking too much?